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 Post subject: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Thu 30 May 2013 9:11 pm 
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As I understand it, Ba mhaith léi póg a thabhairt dó. and Is mian léi póg a thabhairt dó. both convey the meaning She wants/would like to kiss him. and She wants/would like to give him a kiss.

How would you say the man whom she wants to kiss. though?

Would it be something like, an fear ar mhaith léi póg a thabhairt dó? And if so, then would I met the man whom she wants to kiss. be something like Bhuail mé leis an bhfear ar mhaith léi póg a thabhairt dó?

Thanks in advance,

Shawn


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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Thu 30 May 2013 10:29 pm 
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Yeah, that fine, ar is the past indirect relative form of the copula. You can also use lenar, the past indirect relative form combined with le, if you have the person le refers to in the first clause, which is not the case here.

Bhuail mé leis an bhfear lenar mhaith ceol. I met the man who liked music.

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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Thu 30 May 2013 10:58 pm 
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Quote:
How would you say the man whom she wants to kiss. though?


An fear ar mian léithe a phógadh.
An fear ar mhaith léithe a phógadh.
An fear atá sí ag iarraidh a phógadh.

Quote:
Would it be something like, an fear ar mhaith léi póg a thabhairt dó?


aye it's right too

Quote:
And if so, then would I met the man whom she wants to kiss. be something like Bhuail mé leis an bhfear ar mhaith léi póg a thabhairt dó?


ceart
ba mhaith / ar mhaith is more like "would like" rather than "wants" if you want to keep close to the literal meaning.
Normally, to want is "bheith ag iarraidh"
Bhuail mé leis an bhfear/fhear a bhfuil sí ag iarraidh póg a thabhairt dó.

Remember" buail le" is to meet someone when it was planned. To meet someone by chance is "cas ar/le/do".
Casadh orm an fear...

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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2013 5:57 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Remember" buail le" is to meet someone when it was planned. To meet someone by chance is "cas ar/le/do".
Casadh orm an fear...

Sorry, Lughaidh but in this case you are not quite correct - buail le can also refer to chance meetings.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2013 10:13 am 
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Tá tú 'cur iongantais orm, sílim gur fhoghlaim mé sin ins an ollsgoil (ach níl mé cinnte)... So is ionann leat "bhuail mé leis" agus "casadh orm é" ?

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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2013 10:44 am 
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I have a couple of questions if I may..


If you wanted to say "I would like her to meet the man that she wanted to kiss.", which of these would be right?
Or is there a better way to say it altogether?


Ba mhaith liom í a bhuaigh leis an bhfear ar mhian léi póg a thabhairt dó.
or
Ba mhaith liom go mbuafadh sí leis an bhfear ar mhian léi póg a thabhairt dó.


I have never really understood if gur and ar are interchangeable here, ...ar/gur mhian léi póg.... or is gur just used in this sort of sentence?

Duirt sé gur fear é. :??:

Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2013 12:16 pm 
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In Munster, that one is a little bit more involved, you can't use í a bhualadh leis as that would
really be taken as to punch her also. Here í she is the subject of buail meet,
where as in the Ba mhaith liom í/é/iad construction the pronoun refers to the object.

To get the subject to come after Ba mhaith liom you usually need go and the conditional.

I would guess:

Ba mhaith liom go mbuailfeadh sí leis an bhfear ar mhaith léi póg a thabhairt dó.

Quote:
I have never really understood if gur and ar are interchangeable here

In Munster Irish, you use gur as the indirect relative when the preposition is seperated from
the relative particle, but ar when the preposition is near it.

An tigh inar tógadh é The house in which he was raised.
An tigh gur tógadh ann é The house which he was raised in.

However for the copula you just use ar.

(Of course gur is also the form of the dependent particle for the copula, but that's a different use
as you said.)

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use
might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2013 3:23 pm 
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Quote:
Ba mhaith liom go mbuailfeadh sí leis an bhfear ar mhaith léi póg a thabhairt dó.


in Ulster you can say :
Ba mhaith liom í bualadh leis an fhear ar mhaith léithe póg a thabhairt dó.

Btw, "buaigh" is the verb "to win", nothing in common with "buail" :)

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2013 3:56 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
in Ulster you can say :
Ba mhaith liom í bualadh leis an fhear ar mhaith léithe póg a thabhairt dó.

Interesting, thanks. :good: (I've edited my post above to say "in Munster")

Why is there no lenition on bualadh? (I'm probably missing something obvious!)

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use
might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: Indirect Clauses
PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2013 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue 23 Apr 2013 11:47 am
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Location: Imeall Chathair Ghríobháin
:oops: Ah yes it would help to use the right verb. Sorry I was too wrapped up in the sentence construction.
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm sure I've also seen something like
"Ba mhaith léi an fear a bheith ann." - She would like the man to be there.
Is that what you're saying, Lughaidh?
Or would you not use "a bhualadh" with a pronoun?

It's really interesting hearing about the different meanings that phrase could have dependent on dialect.
How would you construct that sentence with "cas"?
Ba mhaith liom go gcasfaí uirthí an fear....??
Is that the right tense there?

Breandán said I could ask as many questions as I wanted so if this is getting too much it's his fault... :D


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