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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2012 11:47 pm 
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The translator, Nicholas Williams, is an Englishman and a royalist. He taught me grammar in UCD many years ago. He speaks Irish in something approaching a Conamara accent (I'll let the native speakers decide how good it is)


I like his Irish, probably because although he isn't a native speaker, he doesn't replaces all Irish sounds by the closest English ones so his Irish doesn't sound like English, which isn't that common among non-native speakers :)

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An interesting man with a huge superiority complex!


yeah, when you see how he treats Ken George's books and theories (I pity this man, although I think Williams is right)

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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2012 11:57 pm 
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Tá díospóireacht anseo faoi -

http://ansionnachfionn.com/2012/05/11/i ... cisations/

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 5:23 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
I actually agree with Williams' approach to "elf." Tolkien's elves are very different from the Irish concept of fairies (even taking into account the Tuatha Dé Danann). Why not come up with a completely different term for them? After all, their own term for themselves wasn't "elf," it was "eldar."

We encounter people here (well, on translation forums in general) who are totally enamored with "fairies" and who have no idea whatsoever what that term means in Irish folklore. We'd be doing them no favors by accepting "sí" as a translation for "elf."

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 9:32 am 
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I definitely wouldn't like "Daoine Sídhe" or something like that for elves. My granny believed in the Aos Sí,
which I think was common enough in her area (Western Mayo) at the time and from the sense of it I picked
up from her and the stories she told me (at night, which scared the shit out of me!), using the Aos Sí would
be all wrong.

First of all, as Redwolf said, a lot of people think the Aos Sí are like little pixie fairies living in flowers or
something like that, which obviously wouldn't suit. However the real Aos Sí are too dark, I think, for Tolkiens
elves. They certainly don't have Elven nobility. Maybe somebody else who grew up with stories of the Aos Sí
can put this better than I can.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use
might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 10:59 am 
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I agree too that coining new words are better in the case of The Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings.
Afterall Tolkien invented a new language for the people of Middle Earth. Calling them siógaí or leipreacháin would be inappropriate.

People have a romantic idea of fairies as little girls in flimsy clothing with wings. Maybe that is what the English fairly is like, but definitely not the Irish one.
AFAIK they looked like us, except maybe a bit smaller, and fairly malevolent. People were afraid of them. Especially afraid that they would take thier children. My Mom's aunt was very superstitious. She would never call any of her children by thier right names as that would protect them from the fairies.
I never heard of leipreacháin, except for the Hollywood version. We didn't have a tradition of them here.
There was also "Na Daoine Maithe" who acted a lot like fairies but were good and helped people.
They were looked on as ancestors, but not exactly ghosts either.

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___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

___________________________________________________________


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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 11:58 am 
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She would never call any of her children by thier right names as that would protect them from the fairies.


dé 'n t-ainm a bhéarfadh sí orthu mar sin?
Tá sé aisteach ainm a thabhairt ar pháiste muna n-úsáideann tú é :) (nó char thuig mé cad é a bhí i gceist agad?)

Here in Brittany, Breton-speaking people talk(ed) about the souls of the purgatory (ie. spirits of the dead people, who are everywhere around us but most of the time we don't see them) and about the leipreacháin, which are called oziganed, korriganed or torriganed here (they are kind of dark-haired dwarves who would steal children too or play tricks to people, hide stuff etc).

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 12:20 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
She would never call any of her children by thier right names as that would protect them from the fairies.


dé 'n t-ainm a bhéarfadh sí orthu mar sin?
Tá sé aisteach ainm a thabhairt ar pháiste muna n-úsáideann tú é :) (nó char thuig mé cad é a bhí i gceist agad?)


Bhíodh leasainmeachaí (nicknames) aice dhóibh - bhí Blaicín Bhearna ar dhuine acub. It was especially dangerous if the child was outside. If the síóg knew the right name they could take the child and possibly leave a changeling.
Bhí sí aisteach. :darklaugh:

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___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

___________________________________________________________


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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 12:48 pm 
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An mise an t-aon duine amháin nár léigh riamh leabhar ar bith le JR Tolkien ná le JK Rowling? :/


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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 1:17 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
People were afraid of them. Especially afraid that they would take thier children. My Mom's aunt was very superstitious. She would never call any of her children by thier right names as that would protect them from the fairies.

We had a similar thing as well, they'd take the child and leave another ("fairy") child in its place. In my granny's area they also had some kind of monster who'd
steal your hay or ruin it, so you'd leave presents for him. I forget the monsters' name now fir something.

_________________
The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use
might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: An Hobad
PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 2:42 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
Speaking of scary fairies, there was a horse in this year's Kentucky Derby named after this fellow:

http://dullahan.com/

Redwolf


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