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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun 2012 8:48 pm 
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I'm working on learning this song, and I've never encountered the word "faoilí" before. Is it the vocative of "faoileann," or perhaps a regional variation?

I've also never encountered the English term "hackler" (?).

http://www.irishpage.com/songs/Piper.htm

BTW, don't worry...I'm not taking the pronunciations from that page! Some of them are pretty awful. I just looked up the words to help me learn the song from the T With the Maggies CD.

Thanks,

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun 2012 8:53 pm 
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Quote:
I'm working on learning this song, and I've never encountered the word "faoilí" before. Is it the vocative of "faoileann," or perhaps a regional variation?


actually I'm not even sure it's a real word... it sounds like "óró" or "hi hoiribh o" and all these syllables that are used in choruses but that don't mean anything.

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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun 2012 9:17 pm 
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According to Dineen a hackler is a flax dresser or a wool comber. The Irish is siostalóir.


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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jun 2012 10:36 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
I'm working on learning this song, and I've never encountered the word "faoilí" before. Is it the vocative of "faoileann," or perhaps a regional variation?


actually I'm not even sure it's a real word... it sounds like "óró" or "hi hoiribh o" and all these syllables that are used in choruses but that don't mean anything.


When I first heard the song, I thought I was hearing "a mhuirnín dílis éalaigh liom," and it wasn't until the second or third listen that I realised the final syllable is "ó." (And now, looking at their mouths, it's clear it's "ó").

FGB does have "faoileann" as "fair maiden," but not "faoilí." But wouldn't Ulster speakers pronounce that closer to "FWEEL-un?" The initial sound on the CD is definitely "ay" as in "way."

Here's a recording of them singing the song (I posted it the other day, but makes sense to post it again in the context of this thread):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjVIfvHktBk

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 3:56 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
"hi hoiribh o"


It does sound a lot like that alright.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 8:29 pm 
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The liner notes for the song Ceol A' Phíobaire on the original Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh & Frankie Kennedy album Altan give A mhuirnín dílis 'fhaoilí ó. I assume Mairéad had some say in that. No translation is given there.

ao can be and is pronounced anywhere between ay /e:/ and ee /i:/.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun 2012 12:30 am 
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Breandán wrote:
The liner notes for the song Ceol A' Phíobaire on the original Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh & Frankie Kennedy album Altan give A mhuirnín dílis 'fhaoilí ó. I assume Mairéad had some say in that. No translation is given there.

ao can be and is pronounced anywhere between ay /e:/ and ee /i:/.


So I'm guessing, then, that it is a variation (or perhaps the vocative) of "faoileann." I can't think of anything else that makes sense in context.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun 2012 1:04 am 
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In professional translation when we reach a position like this, we were taught to try to get clarification from the writer, if they are still alive.

Mairéad might know whether or not it has meaning, at least to her, or is just a "filler" like oiribh. After all, it is her song. So why not ask her directly? We live in an age where artists are more approachable than ever. Worth a try?

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun 2012 1:14 am 
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Breandán wrote:
In professional translation when we reach a position like this, we were taught to try to get clarification from the writer, if they are still alive.

Mairéad might know whether or not it has meaning, at least to her, or is just a "filler" like oiribh. After all, it is her song. So why not ask her directly? We live in an age where artists are more approachable than ever. Worth a try?


I think I'll do that. I've been told she's very approachable.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun 2012 2:49 am 
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Redwolf wrote:
Breandán wrote:
In professional translation when we reach a position like this, we were taught to try to get clarification from the writer, if they are still alive.

Mairéad might know whether or not it has meaning, at least to her, or is just a "filler" like oiribh. After all, it is her song. So why not ask her directly? We live in an age where artists are more approachable than ever. Worth a try?

I think I'll do that. I've been told she's very approachable.
Redwolf

:yes: One of the best things about Irish music is that most traditional artists always have been very approachable.

I once had a session with Mairéad and her band in an Irish pub in Tokyo. :D

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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