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PostPosted: Fri 23 Sep 2011 5:40 pm 
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Location: Éire
To get a very Connacht/Conamara word for ''drunk'' I learned súogach in Carraroe I'm not sure how to spell it I only heard it being said. You can also say ''dallta'' for drunk as well.


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PostPosted: Fri 23 Sep 2011 5:54 pm 
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heather304 wrote:
Tá ár gcroí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nach bhféadfadh ár súile choidhchin feiceáil
"Our hearts are overflowing with a beauty our eyes could never see"

I really like this by Breandán. It's pretty & I love the "overflowing" instead of "drunk" because I now agree with all of you. So if we could make this 100% accurate, it'd be absolutley amazing!

The word order in the above is a bit idiosyncratic. I'd have the choíchin (choidhchin is an old spelling and while there's nothing wrong with the old spellings you might not want to mix old and new in one sentence) right at the very end:
...nach bhféadfadh ár súile a fheiceáil choíchin
to keep it as close to Breandán's as possible.

Myself I'd plump for a slightly different construction, as I did above: ...nárbh fhéidir dhár súile a fheiceáil (or a bhrath) choíchin. There is a slight difference in nuance here: is the beauty un-seeable altogether (my version), or are our eyes just not quite up to the task? If you like the sound or the look of Breandán's version better though I wouldn't lose any sleep over the distinction.

Regarding bhrath vs. fheiceáil, there isn't much difference except that the latter seems slightly (only slightly) redundant to me. What else would eyes do but 'see'? 'Brath' is a more general word for sensory experience and would, I think, be used in preference here. (Similarly, Irish tends to go on about 'the mother' where English would often have 'his mother' or 'her mother' - if there is only one mother in the picture then you don't need to keep specifying over and over whose mother she is. the listener can be trusted to keep it straight.)


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PostPosted: Fri 23 Sep 2011 8:10 pm 
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So it looks like what we have so far is:

Tá ár gcroí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nárbh fhéidir dhár súile a bhrath choíchin.

But from Caitríona's final comment above, you might also use:

Tá an croí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nárbh fhéidir do na súile a bhrath choíchin.
literally "The heart is overflowing with a beauty the eyes could never see."

Is that what you meant, a Chaitríona?

Using the definite article an or na has a very Irish "feel" to it.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Fri 23 Sep 2011 8:45 pm 
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Sorry. I was rambling on about articles by way of highlighting the Irish tendency to avoid redundancies (except when intentionally piling them up for effect - an bhfuil an 'Béal Bocht' léite cheana agat?) some of which might not even seem redundant in English, thus ultimately - and (very) indirectly - explaining why I'd prefer brath to feiceáil here.

'dhár súile' is just fine (and, I think, needed to balance 'ár gcroí' in the first half.)


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep 2011 11:06 pm 
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heather304 wrote:
I would like to get this quote tattooed on my ribs in Connacht Gaelic (sorry for mispelling). The help would be highly appreciated! :D

"Our hearts are drunk with a beauty our eyes could never see"

I'd also like to know what you guys think of the quote too please. Thanks! :D


How about something like:

Ar meisce leis an áilleacht nach mbíonn na súile in ann a fheiceáil atá ár gcroí.

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep 2011 1:04 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
So it looks like what we have so far is:

Tá ár gcroí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nárbh fhéidir dhár súile a bhrath choíchin.

But from Caitríona's final comment above, you might also use:

Tá an croí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nárbh fhéidir do na súile a bhrath choíchin.
literally "The heart is overflowing with a beauty the eyes could never see."


So which one would be best? If I were to ever go to Ireland which one would more people be able to read & not make fun of me lol & which is the exact saying of the quote with the word "overflowing" in it. Thanks so much for all the help everyone. Your making this tattoo get closer to being done! :)

p.s. Sorry I dont really understand how you guys are breaking it down. I'm sure glad you guys do though! lol :)


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep 2011 8:17 pm 
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sorry if I'm starting to bug people but I now have a question.. why is Braoins translation totally different from Breandáns & C. Uí Loideáin? I would like to keep the word "Our" in the beginning also and change the word "drunk" to "overflowing". I honestly dont care how pretty it is (tho it would be nice if it was pretty lol) I just want it to be 100% correct! Also if someone could possibly help me with pronuciation on the quote, that'd be awesome! thanks


p.s. Oh & after I get my tattoo, I'll post a pic so everyone can see how it turned out!! :D :yes:


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep 2011 9:09 pm 
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heather304 wrote:
sorry if I'm starting to bug people but I now have a question.. why is Braoins translation totally different from Breandáns & C. Uí Loideáin? I would like to keep the word "Our" in the beginning also and change the word "drunk" to "overflowing". I honestly dont care how pretty it is (tho it would be nice if it was pretty lol) I just want it to be 100% correct! Also if someone could possibly help me with pronuciation on the quote, that'd be awesome! thanks


p.s. Oh & after I get my tattoo, I'll post a pic so everyone can see how it turned out!! :D :yes:

Just as in English, there are many different ways to say the same thing. We're just discussing the best way to accurately translate what you've given us.


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Sep 2011 3:00 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
So it looks like what we have so far is:

Tá ár gcroí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nárbh fhéidir dhár súile a bhrath choíchin.

But from Caitríona's final comment above, you might also use:

Tá an croí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nárbh fhéidir do na súile a bhrath choíchin.
literally "The heart is overflowing with a beauty the eyes could never see."

Is that what you meant, a Chaitríona?

Using the definite article an or na has a very Irish "feel" to it.


Okay so what I think I'd do if I wanted to keep the "Our" in it is I would use "Tá ár" instead of "Tá an" right?! Does "Tá ár" mean Our & "Tá an" me The? I'm just trying to figure this out as much as I can.. & what is the difference between "dhár" & "do na"? I see that you said the "do na" is more Irish but does it mean the same thing? Oh & I noticed that one of the words have a different letter placing, Breandán has "gcroí" & Chaitríona has "croí" whats the difference in that also? I'm just really trying to get this figured out so I can get my tattooo drawn up.. Thanks :)

Please continue helping me! :yes: lol


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Sep 2011 4:39 pm 
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Braoin wrote:
Ar meisce leis an áilleacht nach mbíonn na súile in ann a fheiceáil atá ár gcroí.

What Braoin has offered is an inverted version. Inversion can have more impact and sound more poetical than a straight grammatical version.

Ar meisce leis an áilleacht nach mbíonn na súile in ann a fheiceáil atá ár gcroí.
"Drunk on the beauty that the eyes cannot see are our hearts."

in ann is more Connachtaí still.

If you want to try that with the "overflowing version" it would come out as:

Ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nach mbeadh ár súile in ann a bhrath choíchin atá ár gcroí.
"Overflowing with a beauty our eyes could never see are our hearts."

or uninverted just:

Tá ár gcroí ag cur thar maoil le háilleacht nach mbeadh ár súile in ann a bhrath choíchin.
"Our hearts are overflowing with a beauty our eyes could never see."

Braoin has used the article with áilleacht, i..e., leis an áilleacht versus le háilleacht. Perhaps the long modifier requires it? Or can it be either? What do others think about it?

Remember also that we still have options of ar maos or faoi dhraíocht (suggested by Scooby on page 2) instead of ag cur thar maoil, and if Braoin feels ar meisce works then it no doubt does.

( :idea: It just struck me that the process of "translation" on the forums is a bit like choosing clothing at a shop, you try this with that to see how they fit and if they go together, then you try something else to see if it will go better. Hopefully you'll end up with an outfit you can wear for life. In the end it may be more a case of personal taste than "correctness".)

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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