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PostPosted: Sun 02 Jun 2013 2:04 pm 
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Hello everyone,

I'm due on Saturday to get my next tattoo and although i have already had some translations done, there are a few i am missing and i would also like the ones i have got verified. My tattoo will be to those that have passed away.
So this is what i have so far...

GRANNY GRANDDAD AUNTIE UNCLE COUSIN
Mamó Daideo Aintín Uncail Col ceathrair

MARY MOLLIE MARTIN JOHNNY CATHERINE TERESA KITTY DENNY KEVIN
Máire Máirín Maírtin Seán Caitríona Treasa Donncha Caoímhín

FAMILY ANGEL
Traghlach Aingeal

CREHAN
Ó Croidheáin

DONNELLAN
Ó Dónalláin


GUARDIAN ANGEL


I haven't quite decided if i will be having each persons name tattooed or the family link hence why i am asking for both.

If anyone could fill in the gaps or change anything that is wrong i would really appreciate it please!
Many thanks in advance

Sarah x


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Jun 2013 3:47 pm 
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crehan wrote:
Hello everyone,

I'm due on Saturday to get my next tattoo and although i have already had some translations done, there are a few i am missing and i would also like the ones i have got verified. My tattoo will be to those that have passed away.
So this is what i have so far...

GRANNY GRANDDAD AUNTIE UNCLE COUSIN
Mamó Daideo Aintín Uncail Col ceathrair


Hi Crehan, welcome to the forum :hullo:


Mamó and Daideo are the more informal names for Grandmother and Grandfather. The more formal being seanmháthair (CO) or máthair chríonna for grandmother and seanathair or athair crionna for grandfather. But I suspect you want the more informal so the ones you have are good.

Uncail and Aintín :good:

I have a problem with col ceathrair:

Firstly, this question is addressed to other members,

Dineen pg.231, under col, gives: col ceathar

FGB pg. 276, under col, gives: col ceathrar or col ceathrair

Focal.ie only has Col Ceathrar

However, both FGB and focal.ie only give col seisir but do not give Col seisear (as you would have expected to be allowed also). Dineen gives Col Seisear. This is obviously a genitive issue with discrepancies i the standard. My initial thought was it should be col ceath(r)ar

Crehan, Col ceathair seems to be correct according to the standard.

Secondly, was it your first or your second cousin: col ceath(r)ar is your first cousin, col seisear/ col seisir is your second cousin. There isn't a word in Irish to say just "cousin" as such. You have to give the relationship.


crehan wrote:
MARY MOLLIE MARTIN JOHNNY CATHERINE TERESA KITTY DENNY KEVIN
Máire Máirín Maírtin Seán Caitríona Treasa Donncha Caoímhín


All good except Martin and Kevin:

Martin: Máirtín, an accent on the first "a" no accent on the first "i" and an accent on the last "i"

Kevin: Caoimhín, no accent on the first "i".

crehan wrote:
FAMILY ANGEL
Traghlach Aingeal


Incorrect word order and I presume you meant to write "Teaghlach"?.

Aingeal (an) Teaghlaigh or Aingeal (na) Munitire

Just to clarify what do you mean by family, exactly? Irish has 3 words for family all with subtle differences.

crehan wrote:
CREHAN
Ó Croidheáin


:yes: , another Anglicisation of the Irish name "Ó Croidheáin" is "crean". However, the spelling of the name changes if you are a man or a woman:

i.e

John Ó Croidheáin but Mary Chroidheáin,

This is due to the "Ó" coming from "Ua(e)" meaning Grandson of, Uae is a masculine word so it doesn't inflect a "h" on Croidheáin. Whereas, "Ní" stems from ingen (ingen>inghean>iníon meaning daughter of), ingen is feminine and therefore inflects a "h" on Croidheáin = Chroidheáin.

As for meaning: http://www.libraryireland.com/names/oc/o-croidheain.php

crehan wrote:
DONNELLAN
Ó Dónalláin


:good:

or in older spelling: Ó /Ua Domhnalláin

Wait for further input

Cian

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Jun 2013 7:55 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
Are we going to leave poor Kitty without an Irish form of her name? Couple of choices for that one, including the phonetic Cití. Or, if "Kitty" is short for "Katherine," there's always Caitlín.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013 7:52 am 
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Thanks so much Cian and Redwolf, I'm glad I got some of them right anyway.

However I'm a little confused by some of the explanations, my parents are both Irish however I was born and grew up in birmingham uk, and only visited when on school holidays and now only for weddings and funerals, both which seem to be very common now!

My translations were mainly from first cousins that have left school a while.

I have now decided on the style of tattoo, which will be in Celtic Gaelic style

Family

Crehan. Donnellan

Granny. Granddad. Aunt. Uncle. Cousin (first)

Guardian Angel

Teresa

... But all translated into Irish!

Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013 6:10 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
Are we going to leave poor Kitty without an Irish form of her name? Couple of choices for that one, including the phonetic Cití. Or, if "Kitty" is short for "Katherine," there's always Caitlín.

Redwolf


:oops: forgot poor Kitty!

crehan wrote:
Thanks so much Cian and Redwolf, I'm glad I got some of them right anyway


:good:

crehan wrote:
However I'm a little confused by some of the explanations.


No bother, could you point out which explanations confused you so we can elaborate on them for you?

crehan wrote:
Family


Muintir (CO), would be relevant for your extended family in general, just to clarify, what do you exactly mean by family: Is it your children, just your household or your family in general (i.e your household and your extended family)

crehan wrote:
Crehan. Donnellan


Ó Croidheáin. Ó Dónalláin (Ó Domhnalláin, older spelling)

crehan wrote:
Granny. Granddad. Aunt. Uncle. Cousin (first)


Mamó. Daideo, Aintín. Uncail. Col Ceathrar*

*I think we should go with the broad rather than the slender variety, as its the traditional form and is also accepted in the CO.

crehan wrote:
Guardian Angel


Aingeal Coimhdeachta

crehan wrote:
Teresa


Treasa

crehan wrote:
I have now decided on the style of tattoo, which will be in Celtic Gaelic style


Do you mean Gaelic script? i.e http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http ... A&dur=1349

or ogham?

If you mean the Gaelic script I am sure Breandán will be around soon and he'll be able to show you exactly what it will look like!

Cian

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(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun 02 Jun 2013 1:40 pm
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Cheers Cian,

I'm kinda confused by anything that's not simple.... I have no background in Irish language at all and all these variants are confusing my poor little head.


Muintir (CO), would be relevant for your extended family in general, just to clarify, what do you exactly mean by family: Is it your children, just your household or your family in general (i.e your household and your extended family)

I like the word teaghlach for family... By family I mean those that I have in my tattoo request.

I think your right to stick to Col Ceathrar

And yes your google link for Gaelic script was exactly what I wanted!


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013 10:05 pm 
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crehan wrote:
Cheers Cian,


:good:

crehan wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Muintir (CO), would be relevant for your extended family in general, just to clarify, what do you exactly mean by family: Is it your children, just your household or your family in general (i.e your household and your extended family)


I like the word teaghlach for family... By family I mean those that I have in my tattoo request.


The problem is "Teaghlach" has the connotation of just meaning the immediate family i.e the nuclear or household family or the people living within the same house. As it comes from tech (house) and slua (a group of people).

However the dictionary inputs are a bit more ambiguous and contradictory:

Teaghlach http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teaghlach

Etymology:
From Old Irish teglach. Akin to both teach and slua.
Noun

immediate family
household

eDil (Old Irish Dictionary): http://www.dil.ie/results-list.asp?mode ... &respage=2

Teglach:
techlach t. teaghlaigi dteaghloigheadh -aigh -aighe teaglaigh
Keywords: inmates; house; household; family; following; pertaining to; household; domestic; heaven; hell; household; troops; following; supporters; army; retinue; train

Dineen's dictionary (older dictionary 1927, written in Gaelic script, pg. 1188):

Teaghlach a family or household, familia or monastic family, an ethnic family or group, followers, escort; a house ; t. Éanna, É. familia; t. Táil, the Dalcassianstock; Is deimhin go dtógfainn t. nódh duit is chuirfinn cóir air 'dir shlinn is cloich, sure I would build you a new house and build it right of stone and slate. Teaghlachán domestic

Ó Dónaill's (modern dictionary, based primarily on the standard, pg. 1216):

Teaghlach 1. Household, family. Duine den t~, a member of the household, one of the family. Tá siad t~ mór ann, They are a large family. An chéad duine den teaghlach, the first of the family. Ag tógáil teaghlaigh, rearing a family. Saol teaghlaigh, domestic life. 2. Lit. Domestic Establishment; household troops; retinue. 3. Teallach

Focal.ie (based on standard Irish and modern terminology): http://focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=teaghlach

teaghlach

(HOUSEHOLD)
home

(HOUSEHOLD)
family s
= líon tí (the number of people that make up the house) = lucht cnuas an tí (the number of people that make up the house) = lucht cnuas tí (the number of people that make up the house)
household

Although, Muintir also means the immediate family, it includes a more all-encompassing definition of family, Muin(n)tear being the older spelling:

eDil: http://www.dil.ie/results-list.asp?mode ... &respage=7

muinter
muntar montar muinter monater- moniter- manu-tera muntair muntir muintir muntaire muntairai muntire muintire muinntear muintera
Keywords: community; group; bond; family; household; followers; adherents; party; attendant; troops; set; chessmen; disciples; religious; community; monastery; pagan; community; inhabitants; indefinite; number; belonging to; family; community; kindred; servant; adherent; partisan

Dineen (pg. 769):

Muinntear: household, family, community, religious order, tribe, party, residents, members, tenants, people, folk; m. Uí Laoghaire, the (family) of the O' Leary's; m na hÉireann, the people of Ireland.....

Ó Dónaill's (pg. 886):

Muintear/ Muintir: 1. Lit. Household, community, family, associates, adherents, followers, party, retinue....

2. Kinsfolk, family. Mo mhuintir, my folk. Muintir m'athar, my father's people. An mhuintir a chuaigh romhainn, our forebears. D'imigh mo mhuintir féin as an áit, my own people have left the place....

3. Folk, people....

Do others have an opinion regarding this? Do ye think Teaghlach would be ok in this sense or do ye think Muintir would be more appropriate for Sarah here?

crehan wrote:
And yes your google link for Gaelic script was exactly what I wanted!


:good:

P.S the dictionary inclusions weren't just for you, so don't worry if they seem very technical at the moment. The dictionary inclusions are for other members so we can determine what is the best word for family in this context.

Cian

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013 10:29 pm 
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Given the variety of relatives we've got here, I'd go with "Muintir"...or perhaps even "Mo Mhuintir." "Teaghlach" isn't really working for me here. Another option might be "Gaolta" (relations).

I think there may be regional variations in usage as well.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013 10:40 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
Given the variety of relatives we've got here, I'd go with "Muintir"...or perhaps even "Mo Mhuintir." "Teaghlach" isn't really working for me here. Another option might be "Gaolta" (relations).

I think there may be regional variations in usage as well.

Redwolf


I agree on Muintir being more appropriate.

Mo Mhuintir My Family

An Mhuintir (The) Family

I also think we need the article (an/ the) when saying Family.

Cian

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013 12:01 am 
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I think Mo Mhuintir works best here. :yes:

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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