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PostPosted: Wed 21 Mar 2012 5:29 am 
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Well, "Now You're Talking" was written by a Gaoth Dobhair native,


and? does it mean it teaches the dialect as it is spoken?
No, it only means that the author's mothertongue is Gaoth Dobhair Irish.

Quote:
so I'll let you take it up with him as to how valid it is, but until he tells me otherwise, I'm happy to take it as a reasonable approach to Ulster Irish.


If you know Donegal Irish as it is spoken, you have noticed that NYT rather teaches a blend of standard and Ulster Irish.

Some random examples:
p. 122: Tá mise ag dul...
"Dul" is Munster (and standard) Irish. Donegal and Connachta people use "gabháil".

p142: ar thaobh na láimhe clé.
In Ulster, people say "clí" (and in Connachta too).

p162: Téim ag snámh sa samhradh.
Ulster people say "T(h)éam a shnámh (in)sa tsamhradh.

p182: cad é an cineál aimsire a bheidh ann?
Ulster and Connachta people rather say "a bheas ann".

p110: Glanaigí bhur lámha.
Ulster people say "mur lámha". Btw I don't know where people really say "bhur". As far as I know, Connachta people say "a" and Munster people say "úr".

p82: An dtagann tú abhaile luath?
Ulster people say "An dtig tú chun an bhaile ('na' bhaile) (go) luath". "Tagaim" is Munster and standard Irish.

p52: Oscail an doras
Ulster people say "foscail an doras". (they added a note though: "In Donegal an 'f' is placed before oscail in speech but it is generally not written" -- we wonder why).

p45 cad é an post atá agat?
people say "cad é'n posta atá agad/agat"

etc etc, I could quote what is non-Ulster on every single page...

It teaches a kind of Standard Irish with (some) Ulster vocabulary (and not always). Standard grammar, with the exception of a couple (?) of verbal forms (tchífidh).

So my question was: why do we have Learning Irish with real Cois Fhairrge Irish, the old TY with real Muskerry Irish, but nothing to learn real Donegal Irish? (not a blend of Donegal+standard)...

Yeah, there is "An Teanga Bheo" but learners can't use it since it's written in Irish, with quite a lot of linguistic terminology...

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PostPosted: Wed 21 Mar 2012 3:00 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Yeah, there is "An Teanga Bheo" but learners can't use it since it's written in Irish, with quite a lot of linguistic terminology...


Yes, that stopped me from purchasing it at the present. I have enough problems with the terminology in English. And now I find that TYI is Múscraí Irish. :/ Would I be correct in assuming that there is not a huge difference between Múscraí and Corca Dhuibhne Irish?

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I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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PostPosted: Wed 21 Mar 2012 5:19 pm 
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Quote:
Yes, that stopped me from purchasing it at the present. I have enough problems with the terminology in English. And now I find that TYI is Múscraí Irish. :/ Would I be correct in assuming that there is not a huge difference between Múscraí and Corca Dhuibhne Irish?


aye, the difference isn't huge.
In pronunciation, Muskerry people pronounce inn (ainnis, binn, tinn...) as "ing", while Kerry people pronounce them as "in".

In grammar, I think Muskerry people use the particle "do" before past and conditional forms, more than Kerry people.
I also think that Muskerry people use the synthetic forms of verbs (bhíos instead of bhí mé, etc) even more than Kerry people, for instance they use the -abhair (you-ending in the past) ending more than Kerry people, I think.
And according to TYI, Muskerry people have kept more distinct independent forms that Kerry people, they would say "chuas (I went)" but "ní dheachas" (I didn't go), while Kerry people would rather say "chuas" and "ní(or) chuas" (I think).
Things like that. But the difference isn't big between these 2 dialects.

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PostPosted: Sat 24 Mar 2012 5:15 pm 
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Is this what we are going with ??

Copying Breandán -
Frása na Seachtaine/Phrase of the Week

CONAMARA DIALECT

A: Dia dhuit ! "Hello!" (to one person)
B: Dia's Muire dhuit ! "Hello!" (reply to one person)

A: Dia dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (to a group)
B: Dia's Muire dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (reply to a group)

And a third person might greet the first two:
C: Dia's Muire's Pádraig dhaoibh !

And a fourth person might greet the first three:
D: Dia's Muire's Pádraig is Bríd dhaoibh !


WITH SOUNDFILE


DONEGAL/ULSTER DIALECT

A: Dia dhuit ! "Hello!" (to one person)
B: Dia's Muire dhuit ! "Hello!" (reply to one person)

A: Dia dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (to a group)
B: Dia's Muire dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (reply to a group)

And a third person might greet the first two:
C: Dia's Muire's Pádraig dhaoibh !

And a fourth person might greet the first three:
D: Dia's Muire's Pádraig is Bríd dhaoibh !


WITH SOUNDFILE

MUNSTER DIALECT
Cian said it's starts with Dia's Muire
A: Dia's Muire duit! "Hello!" (to one person)
B: Dia's Muire's Pádraig duit! "Hello!" (reply to one person)

A: Dia 's Muire daoibh ! "Hello!" (to a group)
B: Dia's Muire's Pádraig daoibh ! "Hello!" (reply to a group)

And a third person might greet the first two:
C:Dia's Muire's Pádraig is Bríd daoibh !


is it daoibh and duit or is there an H??

WITH SOUNDFILE


And then you might want to ask how the person is-

Cé chaoi 'bhfuil tú? CONAMARA
dé mar atá tú? DONEGAL/ULSTER
Conas tánn? MUNSTER


Other moderators feel free to correct it directly above.


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PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr 2012 7:59 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
I was told Welsh speakers greet people they don't know bilingually - "Shwmae? Hello" This gives the other party the choice of answering in Welsh if they can, or in English if they can't speak Welsh....snip


I've not really heard people doing that. It's usually just 'shwmae' or 'helo'. The only hazard with using 'shwmae' is that it really means 'How are things' and so some people prefer to answer that with 'Iawn, diolch' or 'Braf diolch' rather than 'helo', 'hi' or 'shwmae' in return. And it's really mixed, too, you never know which response you'll get.

If I don't know whether someone speaks Welsh or not, I'll use 'helo' in predominantly English-speaking areas and 'shwmae' in predominantly Welsh-speaking areas. I think most people do something similar.

You can tell which is which, by the way, from the street signs; English comes first on the sign if it's a predominantly English-speaking area like Cardiff or Swansea. If you go just slightly northwest of Swansea to Llanelli which is a predominantly Welsh speaking area, the Welsh comes first on the signs.

Probably more than you ever wanted to know. :rolleyes: :D

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PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr 2012 12:58 am 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Is this what we are going with ??

Copying Breandán -
Frása na Seachtaine/Phrase of the Week

CONAMARA DIALECT

A: Dia dhuit ! "Hello!" (to one person)
B: Dia's Muire dhuit ! "Hello!" (reply to one person)

A: Dia dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (to a group)
B: Dia's Muire dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (reply to a group)

And a third person might greet the first two:
C: Dia's Muire's Pádraig dhaoibh !

And a fourth person might greet the first three:
D: Dia's Muire's Pádraig is Bríd dhaoibh !


WITH SOUNDFILE


DONEGAL/ULSTER DIALECT

A: Dia dhuit ! "Hello!" (to one person)
B: Dia's Muire dhuit ! "Hello!" (reply to one person)

A: Dia dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (to a group)
B: Dia's Muire dhaoibh ! "Hello!" (reply to a group)

And a third person might greet the first two:
C: Dia's Muire's Pádraig dhaoibh !

And a fourth person might greet the first three:
D: Dia's Muire's Pádraig is Bríd dhaoibh !


WITH SOUNDFILE

MUNSTER DIALECT
Cian said it's starts with Dia's Muire
A: Dia's Muire duit! "Hello!" (to one person)
B: Dia's Muire's Pádraig duit! "Hello!" (reply to one person)

A: Dia 's Muire daoibh ! "Hello!" (to a group)
B: Dia's Muire's Pádraig daoibh ! "Hello!" (reply to a group)

And a third person might greet the first two:
C:Dia's Muire's Pádraig is Bríd daoibh !


is it daoibh and duit or is there an H??

WITH SOUNDFILE


And then you might want to ask how the person is-

Cé chaoi 'bhfuil tú? CONAMARA
dé mar atá tú? DONEGAL/ULSTER
Conas tánn? MUNSTER


Other moderators feel free to correct it directly above.


In Munster there's definitly a séimhiú Dia 's Muire dhuit dhaoibh srl...

Sorry about the late reply I was in Barcelona when you posted this an I only noiced the view your post link while ago :oops:

Conas taoi?- how are you?
Conas tánn? how are you?
Conas tánn is sometimes used as slang because people can't be bothered to say tú

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr 2012 10:11 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
In Munster there's definitly a séimhiú Dia 's Muire dhuit dhaoibh srl...

Sorry about the late reply I was in Barcelona when you posted this an I only noiced the view your post link while ago :oops:

Conas taoi?- how are you?
Conas tánn? how are you?
Conas tánn is sometimes used as slang because people can't be bothered to say tú
Dia 's Muire dhuit nó dhíbh ???

And don't forget about conas athá

A Bhreandáin is a Bhríd, while I like the idea of including all dialects, I think you should go ahead with your own Connemara versions and let others add their own notes/recordings from other dialects after the fact. Otherwise, this looks like it could turn into frása na bliana.

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PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr 2012 10:24 pm 
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Posts: 450
Mick wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
In Munster there's definitly a séimhiú Dia 's Muire dhuit dhaoibh srl...

Sorry about the late reply I was in Barcelona when you posted this an I only noiced the view your post link while ago :oops:

Conas taoi?- how are you?
Conas tánn? how are you?
Conas tánn is sometimes used as slang because people can't be bothered to say tú
Dia 's Muire dhuit nó dhíbh ???

And don't forget about conas athá

A Bhreandáin is a Bhríd, while I like the idea of including all dialects, I think you should go ahead with your own Connemara versions and let others add their own notes/recordings from other dialects after the fact. Otherwise, this looks like it could turn into frása na bliana.



I think this is why we need our caighdeán oifigiúil... for translation and general usage purposes...
English has as many dialects here in Ireland, but thankfully we have a standard English...

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PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 11:36 pm 
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Braoin wrote:
I think this is why we need our caighdeán oifigiúil... for translation and general usage purposes...
English has as many dialects here in Ireland, but thankfully we have a standard English...

... or two. :winkgrin:

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012 12:01 am 
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Breandán wrote:
Braoin wrote:
I think this is why we need our caighdeán oifigiúil... for translation and general usage purposes...
English has as many dialects here in Ireland, but thankfully we have a standard English...

... or two. :winkgrin:


Or three!

Redwolf


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